Construction Data: Understanding the Value 

As director at Sage Construction, Dennis Stejskal has over 40 years of experience in the construction field. Dennis has seen all sides of the construction product spectrum and has headed up product management for Sage’s three product lines: Sage 100 Contractor (Master Builder), Sage 300 Construction and Real Estate (Timberline Office) and Sage Estimating. His experience has led him to his current role as the Director of Customer Experience.

In this episode of the Mobile Workforce Podcast, Dennis shares the value of construction data and how contractors need to start using the data they have and seek out data that will build their successes.  Listen in to find out how to increase the use of data that has already been collected on the job site and how to give it value. 

 

Key Takeaways:

  1. Leverage underutilized data from the field. Not taking the time to understand the full potential of data you’ve collected from the field will hinder contractors in the long run. Never underestimate the power analyzing data has to help make better strategic decisions and improve your bottom line.  
  2. Study the connections between specific data sets. Unused data does no good. By analyzing data sets, construction leaders can identify patterns and pinpoint areas where productivity needs a boost. 
  3. Overcoming the fear of technology will unleash limitless opportunities for your business. Blame it on fear of the unknown, but many contractors and employees are hesitant to use technology they’re unfamiliar with. Fortunately, the more exposure they get to new solutions, the more comfortable they will be using it. And that opens up endless possibilities to improve your business, spanning data collection, labor tracking, safety training and more. 

Subscribe to the Mobile Workforce podcast to receive alerts as the new episodes post on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify.

Click Play to Listen to the Podcast Now:

Episode Transcript:

Mike Merril:

Hello, and welcome to the Mobile Workforce Podcast. I am your host, Mike Merril. And today, we are sitting down with Dennis Stejskal, a Director at Sage Construction and Real Estate. We asked Dennis to join us here today to discuss the incredible value of data on the job site. So, welcome Dennis, and thanks for joining in on the conversation today.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah, thank you, Mike. I appreciate it, look forward to it. Got some stories to share with you, so ready to roll.

 

Mike Merril:

Great, well before we jump into the deep end of the pool, why don’t you tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself, maybe your background, and where you’ve gained your expertise. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Sure. Yeah, I have actually been in the construction technology market for over 40 years. I graduated a big Badger fan out of the University of Wisconsin, and got hired right out of school by Timberline Software. That was way back in ’79. From ’79 to present, I have been with Timberline Software, who was actually acquired by Sage Software in 2003. So it’s been a long haul, and for the most part I’ve been with them the whole time and it’s been really, really exciting. I’ve had the opportunity to be in many roles. I was in sales, I was in support, I was in development, not as a developer but I ran a QA department. 

I’ve consulted, I’ve installed systems, and then I actually got into the whole product management and product line owner. I basically designed and built out the Timberline, now called Sage Construction Real Estate 300. So with all that, I’ve had a great amount of experience working with customers, with the market. And I’m very now heavily involved with the roll out of Sage Intacct Construction, our latest construction offering.

But the part that has really been cool is when I first started in ’79, I went up to Portland, Oregon and I went into the corporate offices of Timberline Software, and I sat down in front of Burroughs minicomputer. And that was pretty cool, Burroughs minicomputer. And then we moved to the TI minicomputers, then on into the DOS based microcomputers. And, of course, Windows came in there. That’s when we actually released the now famous Timberline product, and local area networks, and all that kind of stuff.

And then, I had the opportunity to watch the internet, and the adoption of the internet in operational solutions. We weren’t centered in construction and construction costing. But the operational solutions were really getting accepted. And now we’re at a new entry into it, just another step in the journey, and it’s the acceptance of the cloud based ear piece solutions. Up until real recently, they really weren’t accepted and the demand wasn’t there. The CFO’s weren’t comfortable. It’s changed. 

They will lead the pack now, I believe, as we go into the future. So I think quite a journey. Quite a lot of fun. I love working with contractors, I did concrete for two summers while in college. So I pulled a number of forms out of those basements, and it’s always been a riot getting out to the job sites.

 

Mike Merril:

Wow. Yeah, Dennis, you’ve got quite a history. And I’ve known you for at least fifteen or more of those years, most recently so. I think the history that you have seen with your own eyes and experience has really been a digital revolution. And when we talk about that, everything comes back down to data, I think. So when you hear data, what kind of data are we talking about for construction that this about?

 

Dennis Stejskal:

My world’s been more wrapped around the data related to the dollar. And Timberline was founded off an accounting type solution. So a lot of everything I’ve been involved with has been really tied to the dollar. Now as we’ve seen the operational systems come into play, you start, of course, seeing all sorts of other data. You see data relating to RFI, submittals. We see processes occurring where, if someone’s dealing with a submittal and that submittal is getting slowed down for whatever reason, all of a sudden it impacts schedule and schedule starts getting impacted. That hurts a bunch.

But as I look over history, again, my background has been more the dollar. And as I look at the types of data, it really comes down to the role. If I’m in finance, I, of course I’m looking at general ledger data, cost data, what’s hit in my WIP schedule this week and this month. Do I have balances? Is there balances that are overdue or AP balances that are overdue, et cetera, et cetera. So very financial of course facing data. But as I look at the field, there’s a lot of data. Of course, those project centric people need. And again, I’m going to focus on the financial side of it.

As I look at superintendents that need to look at estimates compared to actual. That’s pretty critical. Am I getting close to my budget? How am I doing? Being able to take these numbers in and for the project manager, truly to understand his margin position. As well as to understand his margin, what direction is it heading up or down? Productivity is another area. If you’re a self-performing contractor, truly understanding, where am I at on productivity and then selected trades. If you’re off a little bit at the start of the job, and if you don’t figure out a way to address that, you’re going to fall short. 

And of course we know what that means. So again, it comes down to the role, a lot of the data and I think this is a relatively true statement. If I look back over the last 40 years, the data hasn’t changed for the most part. A lot of it is the same data. Now, when you get into bam and you get into some of the more modern technologies like that, of course there’s different types of data. But in some of the core project management, financial type data, it’s the same data. It is literally the same. 

And over the years, we spent more time on figuring out how to collect the data and then use the data to try to figure out what was wrong, or if something went wrong. And then we’ve migrated to using the data to say, “Yeah, I know something went wrong. Why?” And we’re now in a new evolution. And we’ve been labeling this construction, financial manager, one construction manager level two, and level three. The one has been the historian, the guy who looks and says, “Yeah, we had a loss.” And that has migrated into, yeah, we had a loss or we had a gain or we had a great job.

And now they’re asking the question why. And they’re looking at the data to understand the why. We’re at a new level now and they’re getting better access to data is allowing them to ask the question, well, what can we do different to influence that outcome? And that’s what we call CFO, CFM level three. And that’s where we’re going. So, exciting to see that transition occurring.

 

Mike Merril:

There’s contractors that’ll be listening to this and some of them may be thinking essentially some of this data is slipping through their fingers. They’re not really leveraging it properly. What would you advise them, or maybe contractors that aren’t doing mobile data collection, how could you direct them to try and get an access to that data better? 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah. There is a lot of data that is being collected today. Some of the methodology to collect it can be improved. You mentioned remote data collection. Well, if we can collect it in the field quicker and get it into systems that can better analyze it, we now can look at daily productivity. But, without even just going into new methods of collection, there’s a lot of data in these systems already that are just not being exercised. And, I don’t know of an operational system that tracks RFIs, for example, that doesn’t have two dates. One date is when the RFI was initiated and the other date is when the RFI was closed. Every single RFI system I’ve ever seen has those two dates, but people do not make the effort in many cases. 

So to put the dates in and then utilize that, because that little example that I just talked through, that’s your cycle time on your RFIs. And there’s been numerous studies out there that have shown, if you can improve that cycle time on that RFI, you’re going to improve the profitability of a job. So learn what you can do with what you’ve got. And, we’ve got in all the systems that I’ve been involved with, there’s plenty of spots to put the data. There’s many ways to get the data there. But, in many cases, the data is not being collected and thus it’s not being used. 

So, understand what data your systems can store today. Bring in a consultant, talk to the consultant. And probably the most important is talk about it internally. If someone’s inside the office and they’re working and you’re out there in the field and you say, “Wow, they can’t gather that for me.” Or, “They can’t store that I’m going to use a spreadsheet.” And someone starts using a spreadsheet. And then they keep using that spreadsheet, keep using that spreadsheet. So they’ve got to communicate, talk internally.

If I can get you this information, can you do this for me? And can you help me here? So get those internal discussions going of what would be helpful, what can be gathered. And over the years, I definitely have seen the walls between finance and operation. Just continue to break that, to shrink. The walls are shrinking, they’re becoming more allies every single day. They have to of course.

And, by getting in there and talking about the needs, there’s a lot of smart people on both sides of the coin and both operations and finance, that can probably figure out a way to do it with some of the tools they already have. So I would start there. Looking first at what you’ve got and then secondly, what you need. 

 

Mike Merril:

Yeah. So if I’m reading between the lines, it’s more opening up those lines of communication and reporting and checking back in and giving that feedback loop is the key.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. For sure. For sure.

 

Mike Merril:

Within that, we’ve got people in the field, we got people in the office, we got ownership, we’ve got management teams in the middle. We have, again, boots on the ground, guys out there that actually have to execute on these things. And, you mentioned, essentially, the phrase that kept coming to mind was you can’t manage what you don’t measure. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yep. Yep.

 

Mike Merril:

I think we’re measuring a lot of things, but we’re not necessarily looking at those measurements or making decisions based off of those in a timely manner. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah. And there’s no doubt that measurement is key to pretty much any process. If you get into any process management, you really want to put ways to measure in there. And in construction, there’s all sorts of processes going on. I referenced the RFI example. Well, that’s a process. Laying bricks is a process. Hanging drywall is a process. Well, if I’m supposed to be able to do X amount of drywall per hour. Well, you got to measure that because if you don’t measure it, you don’t know realistically how you’re performing.

Everything has a scorecard. And ideally you don’t want to wait until the very end to realize that I’m way behind and technology can definitely help you there. And there’s some other things that we might talk about a little while that really allow us to say, what are some of the things that could help us, take us from even a level one to a level two and a level three of using the data. 

And, as I think about that, one of the challenges that I think a lot of the teams get into is, they come up with an idea, they come up with a need and someone is chartered with going off and get it done. And, any implementation of technology is a change. And we’ve all been to seminars and webinars on change management. And how do you implement change, I’m not talking about construction change, but process change. And I always sit back and I think about that and it starts with, right up front, don’t make any decisions in a vacuum. 

Gather feedback, get requirements, understand what the problem is. You mentioned the word communicate. Open those lines of communication, get involvement. So when you get technology direction and you want to start implementing it, again, get involvement from everyone on what the requirements are, what do we need to do. Now, once you start into it, put together that plan. I think in a lot of cases I’ve seen people implement. We’re going to implement it for every single person in the company. They’ll start with small groups, get proper training in place. So there’s just a lot of things that one can do to better manage and implement some of these different process changes that involve technology process changes. 

 

Mike Merril:

Yeah. I think it’s interesting, you mentioned a plan, almost like a plan to execute the plan, so to speak.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah, to some degree. And, as you definitely want to think about it. But of course the execution’s the key and with technology, you also find people that, some are more tech savvy than others. So, pair those people up. If you’ve got a young intern even, or someone new to the company, who’s really a tech savvy, team them up with a more senior superintendent. If you want to get that superintendent involved. I actually saw that happen one time. There’s a company here in Dallas that I was working with and I had met with them months before. And I had actually participated in one of the round tables of the team. And it was bout the subject field, field access, field tools, et cetera, et cetera. 

And there is this one superintendent, he was sitting in the corner and not showing a lot of interest. Hell no, that ain’t going to work for me, that ain’t going to work for me. Fast forward, I think it was about five months. And I went out to this job site. It was a church down in Fort Worth. To this day, I occasionally drive by it and the story comes back. And we’d go out to his job trail there, we get in the job trail. We talked for a little bit, talk for a little bit. And then, we went up to the job site. And as he’s walking out the job site, he grabbed his tablet. And as he grabbed his tablet, it was like, “Huh, that’s interesting.” And we proceeded to go on the job site and look at some things. 

And numerous times during that trip, he would use it to reference a document of some sort. He took a couple pictures here and there of something he noticed. And so, that thing was hang to him. We went to lunch and he pulled out his tablet again. So the comment there, and I said, “You sure seem like you’re picking that up pretty quickly compared to four or so months ago when I first visited with you.” 

And he says, “Yeah, I really, really, really liked this thing. We had a junior project manager that hang rounds may for a little while. And he showed me some tips and tricks on how to use these things.” And he said, “I really, really enjoy it.” So pair some people up, not everyone likes this technology stuff and really try to get them to understand that value. 

 

Mike Merril:

Yeah, that’s great. That’s a Sage advice, no pun intended, to construction workers and companies out there. Along the lines with one of the other questions I wanted to ask you, of some of the different technologies that you’ve seen adopted in construction over the last few years, which one seems to be the most surprising to you and why? 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah. That’s a tough one. I’m really not sure I’m surprised by any new technologies. As we’ve seen technology evolve, we know what’s going to happen. We’ve seen such an acceptance of the cloud, that I’m not surprised by new technology. There’s a lot of smart people out there that can invent this technology. If I had to pick one, I’m starting to see better tools for expense management that’s occurring quite a bit. The integration between the suppliers and the contractors. I think I’m seeing more things happening there. Which again, I’m not surprised by, but I’m glad to see it’s happening. 

Some of the more design type tools and the ability for walk in the job site and tag things to the BIM model and all that type of technology. I’m not surprised by it, but I think it’s fabulous that it’s happening. Probably the thing that, I guess another comment I’d make is, I’m more surprised by the lack of adoption. And it’s in some really simple areas. One of them you and your organization are very close to time capture, simple time capture. You know as well as I do, we talk to companies every week that are still using paper.

Don’t get it, don’t get it. Why haven’t they? So I’m really surprised in that little example. Why haven’t they? Notification tools is another one. The amount of data that is collected, there is no doubt in a construction office, the amount of data is overwhelming. There’s no way that any individual can keep up with the amount of data. And there’s tools out there that can help them there to monitor the data, to provide notifications when something doesn’t look right. 

Those tools are becoming smarter with artificial intelligence. Is it because they don’t trust them? I don’t know the answer to that. But I think the underutilization still of some of this technology is probably more surprising than new technology. 

 

Mike Merril:

Yeah. Really, it sounds like one of the most common technology issues is maybe not properly adopting or using the tools they have. Could that be the problem?

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah. There’s no doubt. I talked to customers every day and sometimes they’re yelling at us for, “God, I wish your software would do this.” Or, “I wish your software would do that.” And you’d be surprised by how many times I have to say, “Well, sir, in all respect, it does.” And they go, “Show me that.” And I show to them, they go, “I’ll be damned.” It happens. Now, of course, we get comments where, “God, why don’t your software do that?” And you’re right. It doesn’t. But, we we’ll we’ll work on that. We’ll work on that. 

I think it is, we started out the conversation a little bit of knowing what you have and what you have to work with. And so getting the proper level of consulting and training can often uncover hidden gems in the technology they have. Another story, there was a contractor … And this story is a little bit dated, but it’s still relevant. We had introduced some new change management software, for the project managers.

And this guy struggled with it. They were ready to throw it out. And there was one critical piece of it that it was a little confusing. We could have done a better job implementing from a usability perspective. But, after I sat down with him and we walked through it and he really got the training on it, he really, really, really ran with it. Let’s see, when would I see him. Fast forward, I saw him at a user group meeting and we were talking and I knew he had really picked up on this technology and was using it. 

And we started talking about it. And so, 12 years later he’s running his whole change management and he’s evolved it. He’s done an unbelievable things with. Even to the point that he said … He is looking at other project management systems and things like that. And he said, “I can’t leave him. The thing that this change management system does, I’m never going to give it up. It has saved our companies, hundreds of thousands of dollars.” And what it took was that training and for him to really engage and understand it. So, knowing what you got, putting in place the proper roll up methods, get the training in place. And the other part of it, issues that I see contractors run into. 

And again, I’ve hit on this a little bit. And this shows up whether you’re buying, you’ve got existing technology that might solve the problem, address the need, or it might be that you need new technology. Understand what you need, have a good feel for what you need first. Don’t go in there saying, “Well, show me what it does.” Go in there saying, “I want to see it do this.” They can then show you what else it can do. But you’ve got to have that baseline set of requirements that you make sure it can do that baseline. Because if you don’t do that homework internally before you go out and shop, you’re going to miss something.

Something’s going to be missed. So it’s really critical to do those requirements and really understand, what do I need for my our organization, the way we do it. And again, I’m not saying you can’t change processes. And new technology might give you some ideas, but there’s always that baseline. 

 

Mike Merril:

So what I’m hearing is maybe prioritize and figure out what those biggest rocks are that are in the road and move those first. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah. Get those undertaken and get those understood and move those. And then you can move on to other things. But even if you’ve got some big ones there, make sure you need to move them because maybe sometimes you don’t need to move them. And it’s truly, again, just understanding for our organization, what do we need? 

 

Mike Merril:

Great intel there. If we were talking about, maybe an area or some areas that you feel like contractors are just missing the boat on. You mentioned time collection, timecards and spreadsheets. Are there any other areas that you feel like as a market, there’s a lot of companies just missing the boat on something that they really should be doing?

 

Dennis Stejskal:

What I see happening is, the contractors are becoming much more knowledgeable about technology. You sit in on a conversation with them and they’re asking, the questions that are coming out are much better, much stronger, much more thought. A lot of times they make you really think about how you want to answer that. But, very knowledgeable that the buyers have become more knowledgeable. The contractors are more knowledgeable. So I’m not seeing what I would call big misses. The areas that I do believe there is growth on, I mentioned time, so interoperability is still a big one. 

Some systems allow for interoperability, some systems don’t, some systems do a better job of it. Be more demanding there. If you’ve got two systems that you have to tie together, push the vendors, push the contract, push the vendors to make sure that they fit together nicely. Technology’s improving where that can happen. And, sometimes we vendors just need to be pushed a little bit there. That’s the forefront of my mind constantly, is that in these systems today, it’s really going to be hard for one software technology vendor to be able to do it all. 

We really believe in customer choice that that there are tools that are better suited for your company needs. So number one, make sure you understand what your company needs. And then number two, don’t necessarily settle for just getting that from a single vendor. You might have to go to a secondary vendor. Talk to your primary vendors and they ask them what they think. Who could I use for a small tool system. Do you have anyone in mind? We really need to make improvements in that area. So understand what it is and then reach out. 

But again, don’t be afraid to look across multiple vendors. Some other specific examples, let me think here. Time, interoperability … Oh, I know one. An area that I see growing, it’s an area that the systems are becoming better at, they’re becoming definitely much stronger. Is a whole area of electronic payments. There’s a lot of companies writing checks, and I think there’s many efficiencies gained if we go to electronic payment methodologies, as well as reducing risk and a variety of other things. So the whole electronic payment exchange. I think another example where there are options, there’s more companies doing it is collaboration on the pay app side. We’ve all heard of Texture and GCPay. 

Procore’s doing a great job with their invoice management system. So I think an area that’s under utilized today is the collaboration between the subcontractor and the general contractor in the area pay apps. And that electronics chain exchange of data tools have been out there for years, but, the adoption is still pretty low in those spaces. So I think that’s an area. Those are a couple of that I can think of. 

 

Mike Merril:

Sure. No, that’s great. In an underpinning to each of those comments and things that you shared, what do you feel like is going on within the construction industry and adoption of the cloud? I know Sage has a strategy there. You mentioned some of that.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Great question. Like I mentioned earlier, right off the bat, the cloud’s been here and we all know it’s been around and it’s been in construction. You go back to the turn of the century and construct where we all heard of that. That launched a lot of it. Procore’s been around a long time. So a lot of the operational systems are there and they’ve been accepted in the marketplace and that’s going to continue. That’s going to continue to grow. That’s going to increase the types of collaboration between the project stakeholders. Be it owner and GC, GC and subcontractors, et cetera. That collaboration is just going to increase. 

I’m seeing more involvement, in the building trade people. And I didn’t want to use the word on the job site, but in the building. The superintendents are adopting technology more and more and more every day. So I see a big rise in technology in that particular role, there’s systems coming out now that are really targeted at the superintendent and all that is all cloud based software. As I look at, what I think the biggest revolution going on right now, like I mentioned earlier, it is the adoption of ERP software in the cloud. 

As we look at cloud software, it shows up in different flavors, of course. Is, if I stick my software in a data center and it’s running on a VPN, but I’ve got external access to it, is that cloud? Well, it is, but is not really true cloud. I am really  talking true browser-based, multi-tenant cloud software. That is being accepted and in my opinion and our opinion that is a big direction of the future. 

And so, as that happens, we’re going to be seeing, in our opinion, a lot of movement there. I was at a CFMA meeting. I think it was in Texas. I think it goes down in San Antonio, probably about three years ago, maybe four. But I think it was actually, three. No, it was actually four, now I remember. It was about four years ago and there was a round table that they had a bunch of folks at and they asked a question, if you had to replace your server and it was phrased along these lines. Because a lot of the companies were untrue, they had servers sitting in their closet.

And they would say, “Well, if you had to replace your server, would you consider putting it in a cloud solution. Would you go that route?” And about four years ago, you got about, I don’t know, 20%, 25% that would raise their hand. The following year, three years ago, that question was asked again, it was basically phrased almost identical way. And I bet you, it was close to 50%.

 

Mike Merril:

Wow.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

This past year, it was a virtual CFMA. I was hoping that I was going to be able to attend a round table where that same question was going to be asked because I firmly believe it’d be close to 90 to 100%

 

Mike Merril:

Wow.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

100% there, no. I just had an interaction with a customer today. She’s young, she’s not ready to put my accounting system in the cloud yet. Totally understandable. Especially when you hear about all the hacks and all this, but, it was interesting. I talked to another contractor this week who a friend of his had experienced a ransomware event. And, it was a serious one. It’s still ongoing. And he says, “I’ve got to get the system out of my back office.” And so, there’s a lot of reasons why it’s reached this new level of demand. The recent one that we’re in this whole COVID thing. In that first six weeks, there was a lot of companies struggling. How do I get a check out the door? How do I get a check out the door?

And you think about that, the technology to address that has been available for many years, but this is a world changing event that’s going on right now. And I think that is also going to drive the acceptance of the cloud in ERP to just new levels. Like I mentioned at the start of the call, we’ve been through a variety of major changes in the accounting world. And I’m speaking strictly county now. We went from minis to micros to land-based systems to operational cloud systems. And now we’re into accounting ERP, finance cloud-based systems. 

It’s a new level of technology that I’m really excited about because I think it opens up so many more doors for interoperability. Collaboration is a lot easier between a project partner, a project team members. As well it’s a lot easier between the software companies to integrate their systems if they’re both sitting in the cloud.

 

Mike Merril:

Well, that’s great. Well, that’s very, very insightful feedback and and I think you’re right. We’re seeing the same revolution and migration. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Yeah.

 

Mike Merril:

One last question for you, Dennis.

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Sure.

 

Mike Merril:

If there was one super power, for lack of a better term, that Dennis Stejskal has, that you’re known for, that you view yourself as, what is that thing that you’ve learned in these four plus decades of working in this industry that’s served you the most? 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

That’s a great question. My response is going to be to every single person listening is, listen, listen, listen and then they ask why. A lot of times I will … This meeting I had yesterday where I mentioned, I actually went on site with a customer and we talked and it was a great listening and observing and seeing facial expressions and hand movements and everything.

And then I had the opportunity after listening, well, why do you do it like that? Well, why did you do that? And I really can’t ask the why until I listen. And so that would be what I really work hard at, is to make sure I’m listening so I can correctly ask the why’s because then I might be able to do something with that from a type of product we build, from a change we make to the software, to a new product we build. I’ve got to listen and then act from there. 

 

Mike Merril:

Wonderful, great advice. And again, thank you so much, Dennis, for joining us today. This has been a great pleasure and I’ve enjoyed our conversation. I’m sure listeners will as well. 

 

Dennis Stejskal:

Thank you very much, Mike, as always. Like you said, we’ve known each other 15 years. I’ve always enjoyed the conversation. And I can’t say I’ve been looking forward to another 15 because someday I am going to retire. But at least through another next couple years, we’ll be talking again. Thank you again. Appreciate it.

 

Mike Merril:

You bet. Sounds like a plan. And thank you all for joining us today on the Mobile Workforce podcast, we appreciate as always your listenership and you joining in with us today on the conversation. We hope you found value in this and that you’ve been able to glean some knowledge and things that you’re happy to share with your friends in the industry and your coworkers. If you like what you heard today, please give us a like and a follow on Instagram at workmax_. And of course, as always, please subscribe to the podcast and give us a five star rating and review. We appreciate it.